Demographics of incel

From IncelWiki.org, the incel encyclopedia
A photo from incelcon 2019

The demographics of incel reveal a diverse population of incel experiencers.

Race[edit]

Non-self-identified incels[edit]

As the GSS, NHANES survey on the top-right shows, Asians have the highest rates of celibacy out of any prominent race in the USA.

Non-Mexican-Hispanics have the second highest rates of celibacy.

Self-identified incels[edit]

Table 1: Racial Demographics of Reddit-at-large vs. Incel Forums, %
Race Reddit, U.S., Pew Research 2019 Reddit, U.S., /r/Braincels 2019 incels.co,  2019
White 73.4% 52.4% 56.1%
Black 3.4% 7.0% 8.2%
Hispanic 18.0% 7.0% (Latino) 8.4%
East Asian 5.1% 33.8% 27.3%
South Asian/Indian
Middle Eastern
White-Asian
White-Black
Other

Whites made up 71.1% of Reddit's total U.S. userbase in 2019,[1] but only 52.4% of Braincels' U.S. members in 2019.[2]

A 2019 internal poll by incels.co also showed that whites were underrepresented relative to U.S. Reddit stats, as only 50% of its members were white, which is quite small for a Reddit ban evasion.

However, international incels.co stats are not directly comparable to U.S. Reddit and Braincels stats. Academics did some deeper digging and concluded there was no good evidence that incels.co was even mostly white, despite looking at the aforementioned internal polling of incels.co.

There is no definite evidence that Incels.me users are predominantly white, contrary to what is often reported about incels

—Sylvia Jaki, Tom De Smedt, Maja Gwóźdź, Rudresh Panchal, Alexander Rossa, Guy De Pauw[3]

Growth in Numbers[edit]

U.S. Inceldom at all-time high[edit]

The share of men under 30 who aren't having sex has nearly tripled to 28% in 2018 in the past decade according to the Washington Post using data from the General Social Survey.[4]

A study by Poortman and Liebroer found that roughly only 4% of singles prefer being single over having a relationship.[5] If we are to subtract volcels from this number, we arrive at roughly 24% of American being incel. As different studies show slightly different numbers, and 24% may be too confident of a guess given the available evidece, we conclude the % American young men being incel to be somewhere between 20 and 30%.



More U.S. young adults not in relationships[edit]

The share of people between the ages of 18 to 34 in the USA who do not have a stable partner has now risen to 51%, up from 35% in 1986. Meaning only 49% have a partner. Source: General Social Survey[6]


Wweff.png


Studies show most male celibates are involuntarily so[edit]

In other words, studies show most male celibates are incel. This is because less than 1% of people are asexual,[7][8] only roughly 4% of singles preferred their singlehood over being in a relationship,[9] about 28% of men are celibate year-over-year,[10] and the Hatfield and Clark experiment which proved the vast majority of men would accept random sexual invitations from strange women.[11]

Earlier studies[edit]

There exist earlier studies showing smaller rates of incel.

Professor Simon DeDeo estimated there were 700,000 incel people in the U.S for men over 25 years old,[12] while for those over 18, the number is 1.3 million.[13] Among American vicenarians, women were 10% more sexually active than men.[14]

Brian Gilmartin in the 1980s estimated that 1.5% of all American men are incelibate, estimating them at 4.7 million people.[15]

A 2012 report by The Centers for Disease Control claimed that within the past year roughly six per cent of men ages 25 to 44 have not had any sexual partners. The Washington Post correlated this figure within incel; thus making roughly 6% of that age group virginal incelibates (per Washington Post).[15]

This graph from Lyman Stone of the Institute for Family Studies that shows that male 12-month celibacy between the ages of 22-35 grew to around 14% of young men as of 2016.[16]

Other countries[edit]

Australia[edit]

Main article: Australia

Up to 40% of those 18-24 were virgins in Australia in 2020.[17] In Australia, incel may be rising among those over the age of 18, but may not be for those younger. For much more detail, see: Australia.

Table 2: Celibacy statistics in Australia, %
Age Virgin No sex last year % Sex less than 1/year % No answer %
18-24 40%[17] 8%[17] 7%[17]
25-29 21%[17] 7%[17] 5%[17]
20-29 10%[18]
25+ 5%[19]
31+ 4%[19]

Brazil[edit]

According to a brazilian fellow, social inequality plays a big role there as for the rise of sexless men. Huge unemployment causes hundreds of thousands of well educated men with either bachelors degree or master degree not to have a decent job, so there has been an increase of men still living with parents and not able to afford even a used car making them very unattractive to women. On the other hand, those born in rich families perpetuate an interesting lifestyle of showing off on social media. Although there is poverty and inequality in the country, access to internet is cheap and widespread what makes even the poorest woman to have ways to date rich men and due to sexual-driven culture in the country it’s not abnormal for these men to take risks picking up women in dangerous neighborhoods bringing out a very unbalanced and unequal sexual market.

In the field of politics, feminism and other related agendas are becoming popular. There’s been new laws protecting women as strictly as to these in the most feminists countries in europe.

China[edit]

China (as well as India) have some of the largest surplus of males and hence a huge number of male incel people which is thought to even aggravate in the coming decades and is thought to become a substantial threat to social stability.[20] There are now an excess of 70 million males in China and India. The Washington Post produced an article with impressive visualizations of the problem.[21]

Denmark[edit]

According to Project SEXUS 2017/2018, among 25-34 year olds, 5% of men compared to 3% of women, never had sex since they were 15 (N = 3495, p = 0.0025), however for older groups there were no sex differences.[22]

Finland[edit]

In Finland, rates of sexlessness and masturbation have substantially increased in recent years, affecting especially men aged 30–40.[23] Further, the number of young men having more than two sex partners decreased for men, but remained stable for women (see the figure below).

Percentage of Finnish men and women who have had at least 2 sexual patners in the last year

France[edit]

Sexlessness is on the rise in France as well. For men under thirty, a decrease in the mean sex partners was seen from 10.4 in 1992 and 7.7 in 2006 (p < 0.00001), but for women in the same age group there was no change.[24] The number of lifetime reported sexual partners for all ages was fairly stable in the recent 50 years (11.8 in 1970, 11.0 in 1992, and 11.6 in 2006). For women, mean lifetime number of partners increased from (1.8 in 1970, 3.3 in 1992, 4.4 in 2006), which may be related to women lying less about their number of partners. That women lie about this is evident as women should have just as many lifetime sex partners as men.[24]

Germany[edit]

Main article: Germany

Stats on German celibacy are unfortunately out of date, but a 1996 survey showed that around 13% of young adult, male Germans were virgins. For much more detail, see: Germany.

Table 3: Celibacy statistics in Germany, %
Age Male Virgin Female virgin Female - celibate during year polled Male Single Female Single
18-29 10% (2000)[25]
18-30 13.7% (1996)[26] 7.5% (1996)[26] 60.4% (2008)[26] 35.6% (2008)[26]
20-35 6% (2008)[26] 4% (2008)[26]
28-30 8.4% (1996)[26] 2% (1996)[26]
18-91 33% (2005), 38% (2016)[27]

India[edit]

Similar to the rest of the world, young men suffer far higher rates of incel than women. Whereas as women usually lose their virginity during their teens, men are more likely to lose it in their twenties in India. Statistics also show that the rates of incel for men are higher in the south of India than the north.[28]

Japan[edit]

Japan has among the highest rates of incel people and has had them for quite a while. As of 2019, 10% of 30 year olds have no sexual experience. 24.6% of 18-39-year-old women have no heterosexual experience, up from 21.7% in 1992. For men it increased from 20% to 25.8%. Sex differences are remarkably small.[29] In 2016, a government survey found evidence of 541,000 hikikomori living in a country of 127 million people.[30] Unsurprisingly, and according to a Durex survey from 2009, Japan was, along with China, the least sexually satisfied nation, with just 24% being satisfied with their sex lives compared to a global average of 44.12% (±7.68).[31][32] The survey by Durex has been criticized for potentially biased sampling,[33] but a similar result was found by a Japanese sex toy company in 2019 (though with China being much more satisfied).[34] Another study found between 1992 and 2015, the age-standardized proportion of 18-39-year-old Japanese adults who were single had increased, from 27.4 to 40.7% among women and from 40.3 to 50.8% among men.[35]

The share of married individuals who have had no sex for at least a month rose from about 32% to about 47% between 2004 and 2016.[36] Most young unmarried men in Japan seem completely sexless, with 40% of Japanese men in their 20s reporting not having been on a single date in their lives, in comparison to 25% of Japanese women of the same age bracket. However, a small portion of these dateless men may have sexual experiences, as 5% of them reported being married, indicating that they met their partner through a match-making service,[37] the primary way arranged marriages are carried out in modern Japan.[38]

Korea, Republic of[edit]

Seoul[edit]

A 2021 survey commissioned by academics at Yonsei University found that 36% of Seoulites reported being sexless in the year prior to the survey.[39] 43% of female respondents reported not having sex and 29% of male respondents reported being sexless. There was a pronounced sex difference with how celibacy rates were distributed across age groups, with 42% males aged between 19-29 reporting being sexless (the highest among men), which was even higher than the number of men aged 60+ who were sexless. Among women, this sexuality-age relationship was reversed, with women over 60 years old being the most likely to report being sexless in the last year. The reasons respondents identified that contributed to their being sexless also differed substantially by sex, with men more likely to report 'not being able to find a partner' as a reason compared to women reporting a lack of interest in sex as being a major reason for their celibacy. This trend was particularly pronounced among the youngest cohort of men, with 24% of men professing that difficulties with obtaining a sexual partner contributed to their sexlessness. Self-perceived social class also contributed to sexlessness rates, with people who considered themselves middle-class or above being more sexually active than people that considered themselves working class. This relationship is held across both sexes and is proportionally similar for women and women (though men in general reported being more sexually active), though interactions between social class and age didn't seem to be examined. The findings of this survey suggest similar conclusions to Ahn et al., 2021's nationwide study, mentioned above, suggest most sexual activity still mainly takes part in the context of long-term sexual relationships, generally marriage in South Korea and that economic factors play an important role in determining men's sexual access in that country. Unlike Ahn et al., this survey did not find evidence for lower sexlessness rates among young Seoulite women (aged 19-29) than men of the same age. The sex gap in celibacy rates among old people can likely be partially explained by the ROK's prominent prostitution industry and the tendency of men to date/marry women younger than then, though the median age gap in terms of first marriage in South Korea is small and comparable to most Western countries.[40] Some of this effect may also be driven by the increasing tendency for South Korea men to import foreign bridges, chiefly from poorer Asian countries such as China, The Philippines, and Vietnam, with the husband-wife age gap in such relationships being larger on average.[41]

Foreign brides[edit]

It can be averred that the Korean men who import foreign brides are generally men that are more likely to be sexless otherwise, as they are more often older men with a lower level of educational attainment. South Korea is one of the most educated countries in the world and it has mirrored the general trend in developed countries for women to become more educated than men over time, judging by enrollment rates in higher educated broken down by sex.[42] Indeed, Raymo & Park (2020) found that declines in marriage rates for lower-educated men were more driven by changes in marital market composition (more educated women) compared to more highly educated men, and that the increasing tendency for men of low SES (as judged by education) to seek marriage with foreign women helped to flatten the decline in marriage that would've occurred in that cohort based on their projections. The increasing trend to import foreign brides made little difference to marriage trends for highly educated men.[43] As noted above, Korean men also import wives from countries that are comparatively poorer than South Korea at a higher rate, while women (who marry those of foreign citizenship less) are more likely to marry men from countries such as the United States (it is claimed that these are mostly ethnic Koreans).[44] This marriage pattern is congruent with a general trend of citizenship hypergamy in international marriages where women from poorer countries tend to marry men from wealthier countries.[45] The number of South Korean men married to foreign women has more than doubled from 2007-2019,[46] and some local governments in South Korea grant subsidies to men who seek foreign brides in an effort to ameliorate South Korea's low fertility rate crisis.[47] This increase in Korean men married to foreign women has occurred despite increased regulation of the foreign marriage broker industry, partly in response to concerns surrounding human trafficking and the widespread abuse of foreign-born wives by the Korean men who are married to them,[48] though some have criticized the lax nature of these regulations and claimed that the drive to increase the low birthrates in Korea continues to be a prevailing concern for South Korean policymakers in this area.[49] In terms of proportionate amounts, the amount of new marriages involving Korean men married to foreign born brides has been stagnant since the late 2000s.

Low fertility[edit]

South Korea has the lowest fertility rate in the world, with a TFR (total fertility rate) of 0.81 in 2021, compared to the general population replacement rate of 2.1 (replacing the parents plus a country specific adjustment for child mortality rates). The rate has fluctuated around that level for the past few years, likely plunging to the nadir of the current lowest-ever rate in response to the Covid-19 pandemic.[50] A high cost of living, a strenuous and extremely competitive education system, declines in social solidarity, increases in female education, increasing pessimism, the rise of the 'gig economy', dysgenics, female hypergamy,[51] and a growing militant feminist reaction against Korea's generally patriarchal Confucian marriage culture[52][53] have all been proposed as potential explanations for this decline in fertility. Like in other developed economies, declines in fertility in South Korea have been associated with a greater age at reproduction, longer spaces between generations, and smaller family sizes. There has also been a general shift where Korean women, who, even after the demographic transition shifted Korea to sub-replacement fertility, previously had very high rates of childbirth across their lifetimes combined with smaller families centered around two children, are increasingly childless for life.[54] The South Korean government, treating the low fertility rate as a crisis that threatens to weaken the economy via the tax burden of an aging population and labor shortages, has attempted to increase marriage rates and therefore birthrates via various incentives. The most ambitious of these was a program launched in 2006 which aimed to boost the TFR to 1.6 by 2020, which has been an abject failure.[55] Other initiatives were launched in 2010 and 2016, respectively. Such initiatives were focused primarily on financially incentivizing reproduction. This has been proposed to be an overly narrow approach which ignores important sociological factors, hence the failure of these policies. Park (2020) argues that policies that focus on providing cost of living support, promoting work-life balance and measures to encourage social cohesion and integration, as has been attempted to varying degrees of success across Japan, would be more adequate in helping to alleviate the increasing social burden of South Korea's period of 'lowest low' fertility.[56]

Paraguay[edit]

The gender that is most affected by incel can depend on location time and specific circumstances. For example, some reports claim that during the Paraguay War, 90% of the male population was killed. Another report claimed that out of a population of 221,000 in 1871, only about 28,000 were male. In laymen's terms, the turn of the 1870s decade was one where 9 in 10 humans in Paraguay were female and only 1 in 10 was male. Assuming a heterosexual model, this created a situation in the late 1860s Paraguay wherein femcels probably outnumbered malecels due to a massively lopsided sex-ratio.[57]

Netherlands[edit]

In a survey from 2017, among 25-39 year olds, 8% (N = 427) of men but only 4% (N = 687) of women never had sex which is significantly different (Chi² = 8.053, p = 0.0045). Among 18-24 year olds, it was 25% (N = 4934) of men and 19% (N = 8216) of women, also significantly different (Chi² = 66.3, p < 0.0001).[58]

Norway[edit]

One Norwegian study showed "the proportion of childless men (at age 40 years) has increased rapidly for Norwegian male cohorts from 1940 to 1970 (from 15% to 25%). For women, it has only increased marginally (from 10% to 13%)" which points to serial monogamy. Personality traits have also become increasingly important for male fertility.[59] As in the other countries, the result points to a greater prevalence of male incel people than female incels. In a survey conducted by Durex in 2006, inhabitants of the Scandinavian countries were the most likely to state they wanted more sex. 52-53% wanted more sex vs a global average 36.12±8.33.[32]

United Kingdom[edit]

The rate of U.K. incel people has also risen considerably. Among 26-year-old millennials (born 1989–1990), i.e. in 2016, 12.5% had no sexual experience, but in previous generations it was only 5% at the same age.[60] In a survey by YouGov from 2019, around 18% of men said they had no close friends. Only 12% of women said the same.[61][62]

Demographics controversies[edit]

Hatfield and Clark controversy[edit]

In the Hatfield and Clark study, certain students were asked to randomly approach members of the opposite gender if they wanted to have sex right now.[11] Women accepted the casual sex offers 0% percent of the time in that study. While men accepted the casual sex offers 75% of the time when the offer was the most direct while the rest of the men apologized or gave valid excuses. This is just when men were asked at random by a random women too. The number would be even higher for both genders in less casual circumstances most likely.

Some feminists have claimed to reject (whatever rejected means in the face of such blatant facts) the methodology of the Hatfield and Clark study stating that the women do not know if they will orgasm or not and they do not know the men. It is not that brilliant of an observation though, as we already know women would have male-like acceptance of casual sex offers if the male offering were a celebrity. Women like status. A lot. Van Halen had fucking sex tents[63] set up at his performances. The stadium janitor goes home jacking off to gangbang porn while crying.

Sexual minority vs sexual majoritarian issue[edit]

There is debate over whether incel only affects a minority of men or whether it effects most men.

Statistics mentioned above suggests incel is something that primarily affects men. Inceldom rates have been growing for both singletons and married men while it has remained stable for women. According to the General Social Survey (GSS) data, a greater share of men are sexless, both among wedders and nonwedders.[10]

With incel near tripling in a decade and steady partnerships almost cut in half for those btw 18-35ish as shown above, we can see that incel issues are approaching a majoritarian issue. But with 51% of young adults without a partner, we can safely conclude that the amount of people sympathetic to incel people due to their own situation may now be a majority of young adults.

However, due to the small majority of young adult without a partner, there is debate in the incelosphere as to whether incel is a sexual minority issue or a majoritarian issue.

See also[edit]

References

  1. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/10/share-of-u-s-adults-using-social-media-including-facebook-is-mostly-unchanged-since-2018/
  2. http://archive.is/e9pTT
  3. http://www.organisms.be/downloads/incels.pdf
  4. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/?utm_term=.9b52429c7136
  5. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.03.012
  6. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/03/21/its-not-just-you-new-data-shows-more-than-half-young-people-america-dont-have-romantic-partner
  7. https://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015/05/04/asexuality-the-invisible-orientation
  8. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=17133744500922136515&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
  9. https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1334921488818909187/1pphP9GF?format=jpg&name=240x240
  10. 10.0 10.1 https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim
  11. 11.0 11.1 https://www.sciencefriday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/gender-differences-in-receptivity-to-sexual-offers.pdf
  12. http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/the-world-of-american-hikikomori.html
  13. http://simondedeo.com/?p=221
  14. https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1101592/the-great-sex-recession-celibate-americans-at-record-high
  15. 15.0 15.1 https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/72931916/One-of-the-internets-most-reviled-subcultures
  16. http://archive.is/y1YBg
  17. 17.0 17.1 17.2 17.3 17.4 17.5 17.6 https://archive.is/akbdv
  18. https://www.ashr.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/sex_in_australia_2_summary_data.pdf
  19. 19.0 19.1 https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/health/body-soul-daily/sex-lives-of-australians-revealed-in-national-bodysoul-survey/news-story/1295bc6b2f76cbc9d4200e97d2ebc756
  20. https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2142658/too-many-men-china-and-india-battle-consequences
  21. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/too-many-men/
  22. https://files.projektsexus.dk/2019-10-26_SEXUS-rapport_2017-2018.pdf
  23. https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/14163-nationwide-sex-survey-finds-increase-in-masturbation-decrease-in-sex.html
  24. 24.0 24.1 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=9691333152456161933&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
  25. https://www.unicum.de/de/studentenleben/liebe-sex/was-du-schon-immer-ueber-uni-sex-wissen-wolltest
  26. 26.0 26.1 26.2 26.3 26.4 26.5 26.6 26.7 https://www.springer.com/de/book/9783658059231
  27. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-019-01525-9
  28. https://www.livemint.com/Politics/RC0cvSgItInzrPBjAZ3f2L/Sex-in-India-What-data-shows.html
  29. https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/press/z0508_00035.html
  30. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/the-world-of-american-hikikomori.html
  31. http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/22444/Kiwi-women-most-promiscuous-in-the-world
  32. 32.0 32.1 http://www.data360.org/pdf/20070416064139.Global%20Sex%20Survey.pdf
  33. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promiscuity#Global_studies
  34. http://archive.is/wip/mUQlw
  35. Ghaznavi C, Sakamoto, H, et al. 2020. The herbivore’s dilemma: Trends in and factors associated with heterosexual relationship status and interest in romantic relationships among young adults in Japan—Analysis of national surveys, 1987–2015. Article Discussion
  36. https://japan-forward.com/the-sun-also-rises-japan-confronts-a-crisis-of-sexless-marriages/
  37. https://archive.ph/BU0H0#selection-447.20-449.27
  38. https://factsanddetails.com/japan/cat18/sub117/item619.html
  39. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/07/119_311690.html
  40. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1112935/south-korea-median-age-at-first-marriage-by-gender/
  41. https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20171116000879
  42. https://www.oecd.org/country/korea/thematic-focus/gender-equality-korea-has-come-a-long-way-but-there-is-more-work-to-do-8bb81613/
  43. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7382948/
  44. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Korea#Marriages_between_Koreans_and_non-Koreans/
  45. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306441557_Why_Do_Finnish_Men_Marry_Thai_Women_But_Finnish_Women_Marry_British_Men_Cross-National_Marriages_in_a_Modern_Industrialized_Society_Exhibit_Sex-Dimorphic_Sexual_Selection_According_to_Primordial_Selec
  46. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57716704
  47. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48917935
  48. https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/06/29/how-south-korean-demographics-are-affecting-immigration-and-social-change-pub-84819
  49. https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/901613.html
  50. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/world/asia/south-korea-fertility-rate.html
  51. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11113-021-09672-5
  52. https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1177439.shtml
  53. https://www.jstor.org/stable/40378774
  54. https://www.jstor.org/stable/26457056?seq=4#metadata_info_tab_contents
  55. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-21482-5_6
  56. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12126-020-09365-y
  57. Shaw, Karl (2005) [2004]. Power Mad! [Šílenství mocných] (in Czech). Praha: Metafora. ISBN 978-80-7359-002-4.
  58. https://www.rutgers.nl/sites/rutgersnl/files/PDF-Onderzoek/Seksuele_Gezondheid_in_NL_2017_23012018.pdf
  59. https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPillScience/comments/dtzvhk/the_proportion_of_childless_men_at_age_40_years/
  60. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5696417/Virgin-numbers-rise-UK-fear-intimacy.html
  61. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21041784
  62. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7488709/One-five-men-no-friends-loneliness-epidemic-leaves-thousands-living-isolation.html
  63. https://www.cracked.com/article_22900_van-halens-sex-hut-8-acts-legendary-rockstar-debauchery.html

This page contains text from editors (Bibipi) and (Altmark22) who wanted their text released under CC-BY-4.0. In order to reduce complexity, this whole page is CC-BY-4.0. If using the whole page you may credit it as 'Bibipi, Altmark, William et al', unless otherwise stated. Most other pages on this wiki we declare as unlicensed to re-use by non-copyright-holders outside of here unless expressly stated by email and under the conditions listed in the email.